{"id":1438894,"date":"2026-09-12T11:46:58","date_gmt":"2026-09-12T08:46:58","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/prm.ua\/neptune-and-flamingo-are-not-competitors-whats-really-wrong-with-the-myths-about-ukrainian-missiles\/"},"modified":"2026-09-12T11:46:58","modified_gmt":"2026-09-12T08:46:58","slug":"neptune-and-flamingo-are-not-competitors-whats-really-wrong-with-the-myths-about-ukrainian-missiles","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/prm.ua\/en\/neptune-and-flamingo-are-not-competitors-whats-really-wrong-with-the-myths-about-ukrainian-missiles\/","title":{"rendered":"Neptune and Flamingo are not competitors: what’s really wrong with the myths about Ukrainian missiles"},"content":{"rendered":"

Source: Facebook page of the author.<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n

Every time I write something about missiles, wild Mowglis immediately fly out, starting hysterics like: “Sell out, you’re defending Muscovite Shpilerman, who stole all the budgets from the Luch Design Bureau, which has a century of missile development!”<\/strong><\/p>\n

I’m not a fan of Shtilerman, Mindich, or Zelenskyy for criticizing them. But I really dislike herd mentality, blind and magical thinking.<\/p>\n

For now, let’s leave aside the topic of the Jewish diaspora and whether national lobbying allowed Shtilerman to slip into the fold.<\/p>\n

I’m all for boring technical facts that eliminate half of all these naive conspiracy theories.<\/p>\n

1) FirePoint and KB Luch do not compete with each other in the cruise missile category at all. FirePoint’s FP-5 (Flamingo) and Luch’s Neptune are cruise missiles of different classes. The Neptune is a light anti-ship missile for close-in combat against relatively small targets. Even today, the Long Neptune has a range of up to 1,000 km and a warhead weight of 300 kg. The Flamingo is a heavy missile, designed for long-range strikes (over 1,000 km) against large factories (its warhead is one ton).<\/p>\n

These are different instruments.<\/p>\n

Both are needed.<\/p>\n

Neptune can’t destroy a Progress plant the size of four football fields, like Flamingo did. And Flamingo isn’t needed for Admiral Essen in Novorossiysk, where Neptune was sufficient yesterday.<\/p>\n

But the state cannot choose to destroy only one. Ukraine must destroy both of the enemy’s assets.<\/p>\n

Therefore, the cries of “those who gave away all their budgets to the bad Flamingo” are simply empty. There is no Flamingo equivalent for a) purposes requiring capital protection; b) within 1,000+ km of the border.<\/p>\n

2) In the ballistic missile category, Luch and FirePoint are certainly not competitors. The FP-9 ballistic missile is tasked with striking Moscow with a heavy 800 kg ballistic missile at a range of 800 km. Luch has no similar project. That’s all. No one has taken anyone’s budget, and the Luch design bureau is not concerned with any contract for a ballistic missile against Moscow, because Luch hasn’t competed in this area.<\/p>\n

2.2) Korostylev and Shtilerman are colliding on government contracts to engage targets within a 200-km range: FirePoint is testing the FP-7 ballistic missile, while KB Luch is testing its Olkha missile. However, the Olkha MLRS projectile has a range of up to 200 km, while the FP-7 ballistic missile is 200+ km.<\/p>\n

That is, they compete as “competing” boxers in adjacent weight classes, or even just one class away.<\/p>\n

Conclusion: each of these companies’ products in the ballistics and cruise missile categories occupies its own niche. The companies are not competitors for the same state budget for cruise or ballistic missiles. No one was deprived of money because of a Jewish conspiracy.<\/p>\n

2.3) But there is another similar cry: “They simply shortchanged not Luch, but the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau with the Sapsan rocket and a hundred years of experience in rocketry”!<\/p>\n

But it’s the same story here. The Sapsan has a range of 500 kilometers and a Belarusian railway weighs 500 kg. However, firstly, those with 100 years of experience need to prove that the Sapsan can reach at least 500 km. Rezeda Perkova, a plant engineer, reported to her FSB supervisor in 2022 (according to court documents) that work on the Sapsan had “resumed and is in full swing.” And since the Sapsan tests took place in the final days of Fedorov’s tenure, the design bureau’s budget for the design work is also limited.<\/p>\n

And there is still no product.<\/p>\n

It was a crime that Zelensky cancelled the project in 2019.<\/p>\n

But everything has been in place for development for four years now. Where are the results?<\/p>\n

Secondly, even when the missile is refined, it still won’t be a direct competitor to the FP-9. The planned range of the FirePoint heavy ballistic missile is 855 km and the warhead weight is 800 kg. These missiles are different in size, range, and even in their design. When Yuzhnoye Design Bureau increases the Sapsan missile’s range to 1,000 km, and this happens without sacrificing the BZhD’s performance, they will become competitors. Right now, there’s no point in favoring one project over another or worrying about someone else’s preference. You can give way to the Sapsan and kill Flaminich, but wait another five years for a mass-produced product. Or you can give way to Flaminich and kill Sapsan, and still get nothing because Shtilerman will run off with the money. It’s better to give both projects a go and tightly control both. And then see which project is more promising.<\/p>\n

Now the topic of missile defense.<\/p>\n

3) Neither Luch, FirePoint, nor Yuzhnoye Design Bureau have ever produced a missile defense interceptor. Cries that the missile defense system was ordered from Mindich, rather than Luch, which has “extensive experience,” are either hysterical freakouts or marketing tactics from one of the manufacturers. In reality, none of these companies have any experience in missile defense. And hitting a missile with another missile at an altitude of 10 kilometers requires a completely different experience and technical requirements than anything developed by Luch, Yuzhnoye Design Bureau, or FirePoint.<\/p>\n

4) And even the approach to work between Luch and FP isn’t much different. Luch produces only the airframe, engine, and a few other components for its Koral missile, not the entire system. Luch doesn’t make the seeker, radar, or fuel. And, yes, Fire Point borrows the engine technology from the S-300, then buys the seeker from Germany’s Diel, the radar from Hensold, and the ground station from the Norwegians.<\/p>\n

Luch’s approach: “Let’s make a bicycle chain and handlebars in Ukraine, high-quality, thoroughly, as the Soviet school teaches” \u2013 this approach will only gain a fundamental advantage when Luch has accomplished “everything.” Until then, this faith in Luch is a pipe dream. Since 2022, I’ve believed that if the Russians can assemble Iskanders from contraband EU and US parts, then we too need to integrate our existing potential and do it faster.<\/p>\n

In my opinion, half of this clamor about the Mindich Design Bureau, Luch, and Yuzhnoye is currently on the level of “Why are you watching heavyweight Wladimir Klitschko’s boxing and not the Ukrainian Judo Championships in the 50 kg category?” And the other half is based on superficial understandings like “Neptune is a rocket, and the FP-7.x is a rocket\u2014why didn’t you order Neptune to shoot down Iskander missiles?”<\/p>\n

This isn’t even the level of dragonflies on a bench, but rather of inappropriate absurdity. It’s carefully inflated by bots online, but in reality, half the nonsense is clear if you just look into it.<\/p>\n

By the way, the same thing applies to centuries of missile experience at the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau.<\/p>\n

1) Yuzhnoye Design Bureau still hasn’t produced its ballistic missile. There was no such thing as “mass production in 2021,” even in theory. Even if Zelensky hadn’t cut off funding in 2019, Yuzhnoye Design Bureau would have been able to produce only artificial prototypes in 2021, not a fully developed, mass-produced product. Although I don’t deny that canceling funding for the Sapsan project is a crime.<\/p>\n

2) “The historical experience of rocket science” is a sham for half-witted heirs. This experience could have theoretically existed in the 1980s. In the 30 years of independence, the grandfathers died out and went to jail. All that remains are the storytellers.<\/p>\n

3) Yuzhnoye Design Bureau didn’t develop tactical ballistic missile systems. ICBMs and IRBMs are one thing, tactical ballistic missile systems are another. Yuzhnoye Design Bureau has no years of experience developing ballistic missiles with a range of 500-1000 km. In Soviet times, it may have made engines for Scud missiles. Everything else was made in Moscow.<\/p>\n

4) Well, here’s the thing: Yuzhnoye Design Bureau has never built a full cycle of ballistic missiles\u2014not even the R-12 or R-36. Experience means being able to handle everything from the engine to the guidance system, warhead, and ground infrastructure. The design bureau has never had that. That’s why it’s been making the Sapsan for 15 years.<\/p>\n

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Also follow “Pryamy”<\/strong> on Facebook<\/a> , X<\/a> , Telegram<\/a> and Instagram.<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Source: Facebook page of the author. Every time I write something about missiles, wild Mowglis immediately fly out, starting hysterics like: “Sell out, you’re defending Muscovite Shpilerman, who stole all the budgets from the Luch Design Bureau, which has a century of missile development!” I’m not a fan of Shtilerman, Mindich, or Zelenskyy for criticizing […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":24,"featured_media":660713,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"ep_exclude_from_search":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[76871,76872,76874,76875,76991],"class_list":["post-1438894","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-news-2","category-news-feed","category-war","category-other-news","category-opinions"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/prm.ua\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1438894","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/prm.ua\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/prm.ua\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/prm.ua\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/24"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/prm.ua\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1438894"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/prm.ua\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1438894\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/prm.ua\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/660713"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/prm.ua\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1438894"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/prm.ua\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1438894"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}